I want to thank you and all the staff of the Prout for all the hospitality and care that you showed to my large group of 37 people. The food was healthy and delicious, the house is lovely and welcoming, and above all, you and your staff were totally available to provide advice and support as we acclimated to our new environment. The daily yoga classes were very restorative also! I want to especially thank you for the care you showed to our student who needed medical attention on a day when the group was committed to a fieldtrip. Your staff took charge of the situation, escorted him to a clinic, helped translate for him, and made sure he got the medicines he needed. This was really above and beyond what we had any right to expect, and I am deeply grateful. – Anne Fischel, professor of communication, media and community studies

My stay at the Prout house in Caracas has been a wonderful experience. I have felt truly at home and safe… Thank you and peace on Earth! – Claire Brown

The staff here is absolutely the best and they are so friendly and have great stories to share… Beautiful place for beautiful people. – Annie Choi

You have a lovely and powerful space here. You made my first week in Venezuela spectacular; the people who maintain this community are interstellar. Keep up the energy! I wish you all the nourishment you may ever need. Please visit us in Washington State, USA! – Araceli Tamayo-Lee

The past week staying at the Prout House has been truely great. The food is excellent, the staff warm and welcoming and the location gorgeous and comfortable. The Prout House is not just another hotel, it is a family. Thanks so much. – Sasha Fischel-Freeman

The location of Prout provides stunning views of Caracas. Whether on the balcony soaking up the sun or enjoying yoga up on the veranda. The space houses welcoming staff, warm smiles, delicious Venezuelan cuisine and plenty of memorable experiences. – Heather Allen

Staying at Prout has been awesome… Its been great doing yoga with Dada, singing, talking, eating and working together with everyone. – Alex Mahy

Prout is a wonderful place to view Caracas and has a great mission and philosophy. The staff are extremely welcoming and accomodating to everyone. Dada is very optimistic and leads yoga everyday, which is a great way to relax. – Kathryn Brignac

Prout is extra awesome! Staff are beautiful people and wonderfully helpful. – Elizabeth Seibel

Living in Prout has really changed my life. I am eating healthier and composting more… You are all really amazing – beautiful people! – Adriana Herrera

Prout!!! You must be PROUD!!! Prout is an awesome idea that encompasses so many honorable ideologies. The world is a better place because of you. – Allyce Miller

We are so happy to have made the acquaintance of Prout and the many wonderful and dedicated people associated with this movement, ideology and philosophy. Thank you so much for all the work you do. – Larry and Patty Mosqueda

When I first arrived, I was awed by the view and outlay of the Prout House. Then I got the experience the excellent people who live and work here and soon felt like I was at a second home… It was nice to do yoga with Dada as I had never done it before, it was a barrier broken. The Prout philosophy is righteous. – Matt Siano

I never would have thought this would be a place I’d love so much. I’ve been an atheist for years and have never understood spirituality. After a week I can’t say I understand it,… but Dada has certainly made an impression on me and I’ll keep trying to understand the fundamental questions of life. – Steven Reilly

I had everything I needed staying at Prout in Caracas. The food was energizing and healthy, and I felt welcome to help in the kitchen and excited to learn about some new dishes. The community feeling was very important, I felt comfortable talking to everyone who lives and works in the house and it seemed like they really cared about my well-being. Also, there was plenty of beautiful outside space to enjoy, mangoes to eat off the tree, a guitar to play, good books to flip through. – Jessie Herzog

I loved the vibe and the people. Thank you! – Kirstin Craig

On our three and a half hectares of land we have planted many fruit trees: 900 plantain, 550 guava and 200 papaya trees. In addition we planted 200 sweet potato, 500 yuca and 50 ocumo root crops. We have doubled the guava nursery, so after the first batch of 3000 seedlings, we grew 6000 seedlings, and we have already sold 1500 of them.

Our two small ponds were stocked with 500 tiny cachama fish, 2 centimeters in length. Now they have all grown to be 5 centimeters long, as we observe and learn. We are growing 18 different varieties of vegetables in our 14 garden beds, each one 10 meters long and one meter wide. We have started our first batch of roses which we hope to sell commerically.

We also grow a little tobacco, which we mix with noni juice and neem leaves from our garden. We apply this as a biological deterrent against pests and fungus, which are quite persistent in this hot, humid climate.

School groups are coming to visit and learn with us. In the last month we gave a guided tour to a primary school class and a group of 16 physically and mentally disabled children, who enjoyed it very much. We have started to include activities that teach Neohumanism to the kids during these visits.

We are reaching out to different education programs to invite adult university students from Misión Sucre to come and work with us as part of their volunteer social service requirement. Fifteen agriculture students, two professors and the vice rector of the University Argelia Laya of Higerote came twice to learn apiculture from Dada Atmaprananda, who has become an expert beekeeper.

Cuban and Venezuelan agronomers come regularly to help us make Centro Madre a demonstration model of small scale sustainable agriculture. During the last month we received an average of 50 visitors each week.

Our two village libararies of books for children and young readers are always very popular.

Unfortunately, on October 31, four young masked men with guns broke into the house after sunset. I was alone with Melkys (12 years old) at the time, and they ordered us to lie down and they covered our heads. They then proceeded to steal everything of value, including two laptops and agriculture and construction machines and tools. At the end they tied us up, and drove off in our car. By grace, we were both calm, and Melkys was very brave, which we believe helped avoid violence. The robbers abandoned the car three kilometers down the road, which we recovered. The material loss was in the range of Bs.F. 70,000 (approximately US$15,000).

In spite of the obstacles and setbacks, I feel very inspired seeing the tremendous local interest and support that we have received over the last few months for Centro Madre. All donations in cash or kind allow us to help others more.

—————————-

Didi Ananda Sadhana, Director
Centro Madre
Carretera Mamporal – San José de Barlovento Caserío Madre Vieja
Barlovento, Estado Miranda
Venezuela
Tel. 58.234.514.5663
Cel. 58.416.834.3772
Email: anandasadhana.avtk@gmail.com

“Potentials and Risks of Cooperatives for a Socialist Construction” by Camila Piñeiro Harnecker, (Cuba) researcher and professor at the Center of Studies on the Cuban Economy, University of Havana. Listen to the audio file in Spanish. Read the original Spanish presentation.

[Translation of her presentation at the First Global Prout Conference in Venezuela, "Building a Solidarity Economy based on Ethics and Ecology", July 7-9, 2011, Caracas.]
Good morning and thank you for the invitation to be here with you. Actually in these few minutes I will not talk about cooperatives in Cuba, I will talk in general about what I think cooperatives can contribute in the building of socialism. I also want to clarify what I mean by these terms. Tomorrow afternoon in my workshop, we will have more time. There I can share Cuba’s experience with cooperatives, and what is happening there now, and what is still left to do, which I know is of great interest.

I’m going to start my presentation here as a good academic, with definitions. I will focus on producer cooperatives. As we know there are also consumer cooperatives. Producer cooperatives can offer both goods and services, and these are the most important for me. When we think about a cooperative, it is not the legal ownership of the means of production that is most important I think, but it is useful for it to be at the service of the cooperative members. We should bear in mind that a cooperative is nothing more than a group of people gathered to reach a common goal, but in a certain manner. Most important, I think, is that they achieve this goal in a democratic way, managing or administering the enterprise democratically amongst the members. The most complex item to this subject of building socialism and cooperatives – and mostly due to the interpretations of socialism that have been made in historical experiences and that still permeate significantly the vision of people today – is the fact that a cooperative is an autonomous organization that the State cannot control directly, because that would be against its principle of autonomy.

Then, what does this non-state management mean? Is it the same as private management, that is, for the benefit of a particular group of people –who are the cooperative owners– with narrow interests? Or could it also have a social character or outlook? This is one of the most important questions when we think about whether cooperatives are useful or not for building socialism.

You will see in my presentation that the fact that cooperatives are in fact autonomous organizations, and thus that the State cannot control them directly, does not mean that they cannot have a social outlook. That is, it does not mean that they cannot respond to the social interests of other communities outside the cooperative membership. Let’s see, what does it mean to gauge whether cooperatives are useful in building socialism, in advancing towards a better society than the one we live in today; that we have called capitalism, due to the way it is organized and thus the social relations that predominate.

Here in Venezuela you have come a long way. I think that most people here realize that when we talk about socialism, we are not talking about the development of the productive forces (or technology), nor about increasing the role of the traditional State, as was thought before by theoreticians and those who lived in socialism. What we want instead is human development; that happiness that, as it has been said here today, Latin American independence. What we want is that all people can develop fully as human beings. This perspective emphasizes the spiritual part, because we are human beings who have both material needs as well as spiritual needs for personal realization, to feel happy with our brothers and sisters in the community where we live. This is the goal of the society we want to build.

What are the means to achieve the full human development that socialism aims for? Here (in Venezuela) you have also the importance of democratic participation to achieve this goal. The day-to-day participation that results in people’s transformation. This has to start within each one of us, as Prout suggests. Prout is a theory I don’t really know, but I’m grateful that I have been invited here and I hope to also learn from you.

Another means to achieve the development we want, is that people also require that the economy is controlled by society – this is important in Marxist theory about socialism, is what is known as “socialization” –, and not the other way around, as Nora Castañeda pointed out. Now, we are all pieces of an international economy that does not necessarily respond to our needs. Rather, we are here for them to generate and accumulate profit.

Now, thinking about the suitability of cooperatives for socialism, we have to take into account that Marx saw socialism as a society made of freely associated producers joined by a common plan. Since cooperative members operate through relations of association, we have to think about the role of cooperatives. Also because Lenin said that socialism was nothing but a society made of educated (or cultured) cooperativists.

When we think of the convenience of cooperatives for building a socialist society, I argue that cooperatives can have a socialist character, because one of the characteristics of socialism –or of a society that has a commitment or mission to reach socialism– is the kind of social relations that are established among people, which are manifested in our daily practice, in how we organize our lives in our workplaces and communities. And the democratic management that happens in cooperatives is fundamental to establish these relations of associated work. Therefore, cooperatives are useful for socialism to the extent that they really implement their principles in practice, that they are really democratically managed – we know that there are some that are cooperatives only in name and are not democratically managed. And they avoid doing what many cooperative in the world do, have democratic management for their members, but instead hire many salaried workers that remain as employees of the cooperative, under relations of subordination instead of association.

It is also important – and this is where the subject becomes more complicated – how to make a cooperative respond not only to the interests of its members, but also to the interests at least of the neighboring communities, of the social groups they affect with their activity. Because we must understand that the neo-classical economic theory, the hegemonic theory in the world, does not consider the externalities that any economic activity has, which relate to the environment, the families of the workers, or the communities where the companies are located. We have to see that the interests of these communities that are affected by the economic activity are somehow represented and considered in the management of those enterprises.

How can this happen? It is not easy to explain quickly. I am only going to mention the importance of democratic planning or coordination to articulate social interests, and to create an incentive system that orients cooperatives towards the fulfillment of those interests that are democratically identified.

Now, the fact that cooperatives must be autonomous could be seen as a problem. This concern has become evident in Venezuela. I believe that in Venezuela has happened a bit of what happens in Cuba. We Cubans have a saying: “either we come up short or we overshoot”. I know that the situation (of cooperatives) is very complex here in Venezuela, and I would like to learn about what is the vision about cooperatives here now. Because it is true, I think, that we have to consider whether, by defining cooperatives as autonomous organizations, they may not be the best way to organize some activities to produce basic goods and services where communities should have more direct control. Because, for those activities, we cannot leave it to a decision of a group of people who might, for example, someday decide to stop producing this and instead produce something else. So we have to bear in mind that cooperatives, as traditionally understood, are not a panacea.

We also have to consider other forms of self-management beyond the enterprise, and I believe there has been progress in some experiences here. We have to consider the ideas of franchising, leasing – which in Cuba is been considered – and co-management models. There have been different interpretations and experiences of co-management, although unfortunately they have not been very successful. But I still think it is important to consider this and the other alternatives.

What is the importance of cooperatives? I am going quickly over things that we can consider more fully later. As I said, the social relations within cooperatives, which according to Marx characterize the new society, the relationship of associated work. We all know that this is related to the democratic practice, and all the positive effect that it brings regarding the sense of belonging; which in “real” socialism was lost because the worker did not feel that he or she really owned the company. This relates to motivation and capacity development through participation. Then whether or not we consider suitable to the building of socialism the cooperative, and democratic management in general, depends on whether we see the hiring of a workforce as an obstacle to the human development that we want. This is also a complicated subject.

Now, regarding the relation of the cooperative to the rest of society, we have to think in how to change the logic of market exchange, where the guiding logic is profit maximization. We have to socialize these relations of exchange, which is also complicated. I have mentioned the importance of democratic planning (to identify social interests) and that an incentives system has to be established in order to materialize the satisfaction of those identified needs. The importance that we give to the need that enterprises have a social outlook, depends on whether we see the enterprise as a little box, a money bag to extract money through taxes, or whether we expect the enterprise itself, by its own activities, to satisfy social needs.

In short, the suitability of cooperatives for building that better society we all want rests fundamentally with two aspects. First, the democratic administration that should take place in them. Second, the fact that it is possible to organize local economies – in different ways, there is no one single model – so that cooperatives respond to social interests.

The cooperative is also important because it allows us to pay attention to both material and spiritual interests. Sometimes we see a false dichotomy between productivity and the development of values, between the spiritual and the material. And the good thing, I believe, about cooperatives is that they allow us to combine the need of the enterprise to be productive, with the need to foster the personal development of the workers, which is both material and spiritual.

These other potentials of cooperatives I list here relate to what is happening in Cuba. We are considering small and medium-sized enterprises that do not have to be directly managed by the State. Cooperatives, as small and medium-sized enterprises, have advantages that large state-owned companies do not have. They can create more jobs, they have the capacity to adapt to consumer preferences and changes in inputs, they can help to develop skills in people, and are key for local development.

To conclude, cooperatives can also represent or produce risks for a socialist project, or for any type of society. For example, when there are policies to promote cooperatives that are perhaps not designed in the best way – although it is true that practice is always more complicated than we would like – we have to be careful not to create cooperatives that are only on paper, or cooperatives that are not made of real cooperativists. Sometimes it is better to advance step-by-step with quality, instead of advancing massively and encountering many problems and losing the way. Another risk is the fact that cooperatives can hire employees – which is, as I mentioned, a common practice among cooperatives in the world. Also cooperatives can ignore or violate social interests if they follow the logic of profit. And finally, another risk is that, as has happened here too, many can fail because the minimum necessary conditions for their success are not created.

Thank you very much.
[Translated by Eugenio Mendoza. Revised by Camila Piñeiro 10/13/2011.]

Panel 1 questions and answers

Lelia Delgado: Let’s start with Didi: “What are the results and major findings from Centro Madre and how does Prout manifest there?”

Didi Ananda Sadhana: Well it sounds strange, but one of the outcomes or achievements that we have made is that after two floods, one in 2005 and another in 2010, an armed robbery, snake bites, and many other things, we’re still there. It seems, although it may sound strange, that to be there with the people, through the good and the bad, is an achievement. We are still there and we keep going. The farm is increasingly taking shape and we hope to be a support for the people, to create a network of producers. The children’s libraries are also an achievement, as is the network of people we know. We have good relationships with more and more people in the area.

Lelia Delgado: “What is the selection criteria for the stories that are read to children?”

Didi Ananda Sadhana: Well, racism. There should be children of color represented in the stories so that children can identify with the characters in the stories. It is not easy to find good stories with children of color or adults. This is a sign of the racism in the world in which we live. We also look for characters with different roles that avoid sexism, that are not in stereotypical roles, that represent different roles models. And we look for ecological values, values by which the heroes live, that they do not live from the exploitation of others. Fairy tales today are changing, they are not like before.

Anyone who is interested to volunteer at Centro Madre, please contact me about community service there. Thank you.

Lelia Delgado: Alba Carosio, I have a question that arises in many places and that I think it would be good to answer. Someone asked, “Aren’t women flagrantly responsible for the unfair treatment they receive from men?”

Alba Carosio: I wonder why this is still happening. Does someone ask whether slavery and racism were caused by people of African descent, or whether the flooding of the Caño Manamo was the fault of the Guarao people? We must never assign guilt to the victim. Yet people sometimes say, when someone is assaulted, “Why were you there at that time?” Or they say that a woman was raped because of what she was wearing. I think this is very much related. I must admit that each time this question is asked I get scared, because I think that it is bizarre that the victims are blamed.

This also has to do with Judeo-Christian religions that created a mythology that women are the origin of evil. The Bible says that Eve brought sin into the world, and the Greeks said that Pandora, the first woman, opened the box of wisdom and released all that is evil. Even some women remain convinced of this. In the same way, endoracism [feeling prejudice towards oneself and one’s culture] exists. Many African colleagues believe their beautiful curly hair is horrible when it is not, and that their skin color is ugly when it is really very pretty. Many of us women have learned the Judeo-Christian stories and consider ourselves the source of all that is evil, bad, dirty, menstruating, and who knows what else. These outrageous ideas are because endopatriarchy exists just as much as endoracism.

Lelia Delgado: Perhaps religious education has something to do with this.

Alba Carosio: To “dematernalize women” does not mean that we should have an artificial womb. It’s nice to give birth. The problem is that children seem to be solely the woman’s responsibility, and the father walks away. That’s a very serious social problem. We need to maternalize and create. For example, Chavez is a maternal president when he tells people to drive carefully and avoid accidents. Both men and women need the maternal instinct, not just women.

We in the Womens Studies Center of the Cenral Venezuela University are eco-feminists. Vandana Shiva writes about the relationship between women and land. Agriculture was discovered by women who cared for their children. They began to observe that under the earth seeds would germinate and the seedlings would sprout, and thus agriculture was created. This is important to recognize.

How do we apply the Womens Studies Center to the Caracas metropolitan area? Mostly through community service. And finally, if we could offer an issue of the Journal of Women’s Studies to publish these talks. With pleasure. We have three types of contributions: academic articles, experience reports and the place where we compile Latin American women information which has more of a creative nature. We are, of course, open to any contributions.

Lelia Delgado: Question for the organizers: “Is it possible to have the content of the papers?” Yes, the website will publish all the presentations. Then for Dr. Adalberto Barreto, “Is it possible to train people in community therapy and bring them here?”

Dr. Adalberto Barreto: Yes, but it depends on whether PROUT invites us and organizes this. I wanted to mention that we have some materials here, a wheel of community therapy with subtitles in Spanish and English, if anyone is interested.

[Translated by Claudia Ortega]

Nieves Pino: Let’s start with our companions Sandra and Luis. First question: “What does AnimaNaturalis propose we do to achieve concrete economic devolopment while preserving the environment and guaranteeing the ethical treatment of animals?”

Sandra Castillo Castro: We propose to empower ethical consumption that will push enterprises to change to change to a conscious production. An example, the number of animals that are used in circuses and other entertainment shows are decreasing every day. This is nearly disappearing due to public pressure. We are also seeing how the leather industry in China has changed by no longer using fur from dogs and cats in order to be able to sell their products to the West. Little by little this is strangling the global industry of animal hides because people are becoming aware that they don’t want to use.

Nieves Pino: “Apart from your educational presentations, how does your organization use the concept that so many resources are used to feed animals that only feed a few humans?”

Luis Verdú Britto: The organization AnimaNaturalis does educational presentations. In addition we are closely related to those institutions that can influence legislation that allows animals to be exploited in a cruel way. Our national director, for example, has had a wide participation in the campaign against bull fights in El Hatillo Municipality of Venezuela. Two days ago he received an opportunity to formally petition the City Council to eliminate the bull runs. AnimaNaturalis is dedicated to work for ethics and the ethical treament of animals. We are committed to achieve this, and to do so we need support from consumers to help make all consumers ethical. This is how we empower the ethical treatment of animals and the preservation of the environment.

Nieves Pino: Let’s ask Victor Vyasa, “Is there a training center for Aparigraha in Venezuela?”

Victor Vyasa: No there isn’t, but it would be a great joy for us if someone decided to start this. We invite you, and we would be very happy to give him or her all the necessary support. Because we consider it indispensable that people become aware of how the economic system we live in enslaves workers, that it is abusive. There are millions of people who suffer the effects of capitalism, and there are people who are not aware of it. They believe everything is fine, so it is necessary to make this known. Not necessarily by means of demonstrations nor protests. It is necessary to approach the consciousness of the people. Every human has love in their hearts. Every human wants to be good, but we don’t let them. Society doesn’t let us. We are pulled in different directions, and that confuses us.

Nieves Pino: Second questions is “Can you defeat capitalism with yoga and its spiritual aspect? How is it justified and what is your opinion?” “According to you spirituality is love of truth, but the same thing is said by philosophy. What is the conceptual difference?”

Victor Vyasa: Yoga, meditation and all spiritual work is to actually increase awareness of people. Once people’s consciousness is clear, they will realize the destructive characteristic of capitalism. Yoga is not going to offer a new paradigm to replace capitalism. We are simply presenting very important values that will help this change to happen. The transformation must be individual. Each person needs to grow and develop mentally, spiritually, psychologically and emotionally. Emotionally overall. The situation in which most people live is terrible. The other day we had the chance to commute by metro at rush hour, and this was awful. It was a degrading way, I would say, of how people need to squeeze themselves to reach their destination. There is no reason for this were it not for capitalist investments for arms, investments in completely unnecessary things that don’t help the development of people in a spiritual and emotional way.

Nieves Pino: Now we come to Juan Sarmiento. “How to define wisdom?”

Juan Sarmiento: I will restructure the question to what is truth, or what is knowledge? There are two truths: one is relative truth, and the other is absolute truth. Relative truth is the truth we learn, with the five senses, the five internal angles and the five means of communication. There are 15 canals of communication through which we learn about this relative world of space and time, relative truth. That’s the conflict we struggle with in this world, causing war and violence.

On the other hand, absolute truth is the truth of the soul, when a person learns how to journey within through the chakras and through the soul. The lessons of life, which are achieved internally through contemplation or meditation. This is called absolute truth. So we have relative truth in the external world and absolute truth in the internal world.

Nieves Pino: Second question — “What is Venezuela Gente Excelente (“Excellent People of Venezuela”)?”

Juan Sarmiento: Venezuela Gente Excelente is the result of a mission that I was given by Prabhat Ranjan Sarkar when he visited in 1979. He said to me, This is the future of the world. I want you to bring together all the beautiful people, the excellent people, the spiritual people, the ecological people, the people who love the country. Unite them and form a movement that will change Venezuela in 2012. This is the change that we are launching in Venezuela.

(Translated by Eugenio Mendoza and Dada Maheshvarananda)

Gustavo Fonseca: Let’s get to the questions and answers from the panelists. There are many questions. We have to choose some and there’s not much time. Here are technical questions specifically addressed to Professor Carlos Molina. There are two questions and I will synthesize them: “How do social property enterprises compare with the cooperative model and vice versa?” And the next one is , “Do you think the cooperative law covers all the needs of the cooperative movement? Are some modifications needed?”

Professor Carlos Molina Camacho: I think the current cooperative law of 2001 has a very positive aspect. It facilitates tremendously the creation of cooperatives. Look at the large amount of cooperatives that have been organized since the law was passed, 306,000 cooperatives legally registered. I believe this law has good aspects, and I think some other aspects should be changed.

One proposal I would make regards the great failure that we as cooperativists in general have had. I am not part of the government, and I suffer, I feel pain because of what is happening to cooperativism here, just as all cooperativists do, at the speed at which cooperatives have been organized with little education or training. Many cooperatives were organized to receive money, a bank loan that then disappeared, and when the money left, the cooperative members left, too. A lot of money has been lost. The National Office of Cooperatives (SUNACOOP) offers courses on cooperativism and at the same time supervises them. This is absurd. Like other government bureaus, SUNACOOP should simply supervise, control and monitor cooperatives. And they should create a separate institution dedicated only to the education and training of cooperativists. This is an important principle to guide a change of this law, to separate the supervision responsibility of cooperatives from that of a different institution created for the education and training of cooperativists.

Gustavo Fonseca: “How do social property enterprises compare with the cooperative model?”

Professor Carlos Molina Camacho: I understand that social production or social property enterprises are different from cooperatives, because they are obliged when they sign contracts with the government to give a percentage of their profit to help the community in which they are operating. I think it is good that all enterprises give part of their profits to help the community. This is a cooperative principle as well, the last of the seven cooperative principles: “Concern for community.” I think that if the cooperative law is modified in this sense to oblige cooperatives to also contribute part of their income to the community, then social production enterprises would not be necessary.

Gustavo Fonseca: Thank you very much, Professor. We have two questions for our dear friends from CECOSESOLA. “Where are your markets located?” And “How do you guarantee social security protection within the cooperative?”

Lizeth Vargas: In Barquisimeto we have three vegetable markets organized directly by CECOSESOLA, another one organized by Cooperativa Triunfo, and another one by El Carmen Civil Association. These are large vegetable markets where we sell vegetables, fruits and dairy products. Regarding social security, by law there is a social protection fund as Dr. Molina just mentioned. In addition we have been generating, thanks to our self-financing, social security. We have a health care fund to cover the needs of each one of us as they arise. Therefore, collectively, we do it according to needs suggested by our organization committee.

Gustavo Fonseca: Two questions for Professor Benito. “Don’t you think the main innovation should be a new model of human beings?” And “Do you think it is possible to apply in practice the concepts of good cooperative governance to other models, whether banking or other organizations?”

Professor Benito Díaz: It’s true, a new kind of human being would be an innovation, a calm human being concerned with the world where he or she lives. A cooperativist that follows the seven cooperative principles and that is guided by those values, is a new kind of human being. It would be a revolution if all citizens, if all human beings adopt this fraternal spirit of cooperative values.

There cannot be a cooperative without cooperativists, to copy the idea of the great Venezuelan educator Simón Rodriguez who said: “There cannot be a republic without republicans, nor a revolution without revolutionaries.” It’s time to work, for we are learning how to do it, how to co-exist and share in the development of these new human beings. Yes, it is possible. In this sense, it is necessary to do original research to know what there is to see and how we can transform it. We urgently need original research to prepare an action plan, because there is nothing more practical than a good theory based on reality.

Regarding cooperative governance, that’s part of the International Cooperative Alliance’s call for cooperative social responsibility. It is an extension of cooperative principles together with everything else. This is possible, necessary and convenient. This is cooperativist.

Gustavo Fonseca: Thank you very much, Professor. The last question goes to Dada Jinanananda. “What would be the ethical or spiritual input from a leader such as Patrice Lumumba of the Congo to social transformation?

Dada Jinanananda: The role of the ethical leader is to serve as a role model for his or her community. This is an internal model within him or her as well as how to act in society. We have seen that many cooperatives did not succeed due to the lack of an ethical vision. We can talk a lot about this. The problems of humanity today are due to both a lack of intellectual understanding and of leadership. But what is missing is the subject of ethics. As we say in Brazil, “they do not have chest,” meaning they do not have the courage to create a universal society.

Ethics is always linked to spirituality and to the inner self. Integrity is always linked to the will to act. If a person has no ethics, we cannot expect anything from them. Ethics comes not from the brain, but from the inner consciousness of each one of us. So we return to the subject of spirituality. Thank you very much.

(Translated by Eugenio Mendoza and Dada Maheshvarananda)